Thinking Out Loud, Gathering my Thoughts

Today I decided to try to organize my thoughts, via the blog, by answering a few of my geneafrineds questions from this past Thursday's Trying to Build a Case.

This post will try to answer questions posed by geneafriend Michael Hait.

• Do you have death certificates and SS applications for your grandmother and ALL of her siblings?

Here is the breakdown of information for grandmom and her siblings. Grandmom and 2 of her sisters didn't work.
Grandmom's death cert - granddad was informant. Fannie's surname, Henry, is listed there, which matches what mom says grandmom told her and what I've been told all these years.
Grandmom's youngest sister, Ossie, no. The informants for her death certificate would have been one of her children. From this branch of the family is how I learned of the White surname for Fannie. Had never heard it prior to this year.
Grandmom's older half sister Mattie, no death cert. She died right on the cusp of Georgia beginning to keep death records. Have not been able to locate a death cert. for her. However, due to there also being some confusion about Mattie's surname, yesterday, I ordered the SS application of her daughter Sallie to see what it has for Mattie's surname. Should say that I'm not sure that Mattie is great grandmom Fannie's child but based on the census records, unaccounted for children, I believe that Mattie is ggrandmom's child. My grandmother didn't pass on which parent Mattie belonged to just that Matt was the oldest and a 1/2 sibling. Mattie is the sibling that none of the rest of the branches of the tree seem to know about.
Roy, grandmom's youngest brother - only the SS app, which was in previous post and indicates Fannie's surname as White. Did not obtain his death cert.
Evelina, grandmom's oldest full blooded sibling, death cert - informant her husband, indicates White. It was Evelina's death cert. that made me finally start paying attention to the White surname.
Effie, has been ordered and waiting on it's arrival. The informant will probably be her husband.
Brothers Claude and Willie Felton - don't know what happened to either one. Nobody in the family even knows of Claude. Mom remembers Felton visiting grandmom when mom was young and remembers seeing pics of him in WWI uniform. Outside of that nothing. Have tried checking online military records for him and come up empty.

• For death certificates, investigate the informants of each one. Who were they? Did any of them provide info on more than one of the certificates? Did any of the informants have first-hand knowledge?

The ggrandparents were already dead when her children started dying. Of the death certs obtained, all of the informants were the spouses, who were from the same area as their mates. For aunt Ossie, her husband was already deceased when she died so, more than likely, one of her children would have been the informant. For Roy, the informant more than likely was his wife. They had no children and she was still living at the time. Also, Aunt Ossie would have still be living when Roy died.

• Also, have you obtained SS apps for anyone not listed in the SSDI? SS numbers also appear on many death certificates and some military service files

Grandmom didn't work and was buried under granddad's SS benefits (granddad's SSN is what appears on grandmom's death cert). 2 of her sisters died before there was a SS system plus they didn't work. Sister Effie didn't work. Uncle Felton might have been in WWI but I haven't been able to locate any military records on him. Are there other places I should be trying to find WWI records?

• Do marriage records provide parents' names in Georgia, like they do in some other states? If so, get marriage records for your grandparents & all of her siblings - esp. if any were married more than once

No, at least not during the time period I'm looking at.

• Have you checked for birth records? (Not sure when Georgia started recording births.) But don't forget delayed birth certificates - many people recorded these in the 1930s so they would qualify for SS benefits

Georgia didn't start recording births until 1919. Grandparents and their siblings were all in the late 1800s. That being said, some counties have prior records. Oconee is one (started recording births in 1875). Since the great uncles indicated on their WWI draft cards, they were born in Watkinsville, I am planning to check there.

• Check for obituaries for all siblings

Have the one's for grandmom (1966), uncle Roy (1971), and aunt Ossie (1991). Will ask the cousins if they have one for Aunt Effie (died in 1951). Other 2 sisters died early 1900s and I've not come across any. The other 2 brothers, don't know when or where they died.

• (This one is obvious.) Check for all federal census records for grandmother & siblings, with her parents. Were there any families living nearby (within a few pages before & after) bearing the same surnames as those provided for your grandmother's mother in any of the other sources

Have checked and rechecked. 1900 and 1910 censuses for Walton County, GA - Unless I've missed them, there are no families in the neighborhood with any of the surnames I have for ggrandmom Fannie. Ggranddad, I can trace back to Greene County, GA and I've even checked there and have come up with nothing.
Based on everything my mother's told me over the years, grandmom never mentioned any aunts or uncles on her mother's side. She talked about her uncle Lon, ggranddad's brother, who also migrated to Walton county and lived beside them. Grandmom mentioned the ethnicity of her grandmothers or at least one of them but there were never names attached to the her grandparents, so I don't know if grandmom met her grandparents or if that was what was told to her.

More Bits of Information From the Peach State

Yesterday, in my excitement and delight at receiving Uncle JD’s social security application, I totally missed there was a big brown envelope with Walton County in the return address. The package was from the probate court and contained a a certificate (transcribed from the original) for Cornelius and Fannie’s marriage. As suspected, there was no information beyond my great grandparents name at the time of marriage and the date they were married. Based on my grandparents’ marriage certificate, I really wasn’t expecting much more than this. Unfortunately, early Georgia marriage certificates, at least the one’s that I have seen, don’t provide a wealth of information.

The probate court officer also informed me that they do have records on Cornelius’ estate; however, they cannot make copies from the book. I, or a foot solider, would need to go there and transcribe or photograph this information. The Probate court will now be a definite stop during the research trip.

Yesterday, I also received documentation from the Walton County, GA Superior Court on the sale of great-granddad’s farm. From a genealogical prospective, there wasn’t any information there but it did perhaps give a different insight into what may have been going on in my great grandmother Fannie’s mind after the death of ggranddad.

I told this story when I first began this blog and hope that you don’t mind hearing it, again. This is from my grandmother’s perspective as relayed to my mother and on to me. Per my grandmother, after the death of great granddad Cornelius, great grandmom Fannie stated that she wasn’t planning to marry again because of the way great granddad had treated her. (Ggranddad reportedly left his family for a brief period, chasing after some woman. But I guess the grass was not greener, so he returned home.) However, as the story goes, some 'ole “Negro” started hanging around shortly after great granddad’s death and next thing you know, great grandmother tried to get all of her children from under foot by marrying off all her daughters that were of marrying age and still in the home. My great aunt, Ossie, was still a child at the time of her father’s death and ended up living with my grandparents, who married a few months after ggranddad's death, for a while.

Now having read about the sale of my ggrandparents’ farm, I wonder if great grandmom might have actually been trying to protect herself and her family from an uncertain future. At the time of his death in May of 1910, the bank and ggranddad owned his farm (i.e. he had a mortgage). Back in those days, I know even for white families, the death of a spouse / dad typically meant, they lost everything. I’m sure that it was even worse for African-American families who, even in the midst of Jim Crow, were trying to have a little something for themselves and their descendants. As best as I can tell, ggrandmom Fannie didn’t work. In Nov. 1911, the farm was sold, probably to pay off the mortgage. In my way of thinking, maybe, just maybe, what my grandmother interpreted as her mother selling out her family for the sake of a man was actually ggrandmom trying to secure a future for her family, especially her girls. Perhaps she knew her boys, although young, would be okay and thought the best way for she and her girls to be okay was to be attached to a man. Either way, things seem to have worked out okay for my grandmother and her two younger sisters.

Now that I know there is documentation of my ggrandfather’s “estate,” I pray that I can get down to Walton County soon to view it. I’m also praying that there may be that little nugget of information is there that will help me to continue on to follow the footsteps of both of my ggrandparents.

Until Next Time!

Trying to Build a Case - Bit by Bit

I received Uncle Roy "JD" Pierce's SS Application today. All I can say is that right now, the "White" Surname is wining out for ggrandmom Fannie. My grandmother and the Martin cousins appear to be the outliers. Does that make their knowledge wrong, I don't think so but it does raise a lot of questions.

1. Based on the documentation I've assembled to date, why is my grandmother the only one of her full bloodied siblings that handed down a different surname? Did my grandmother know something that the rest of her siblings didn't? There does appear to be one thing that she knew that no one else seem to know (at least no one else handed it down), her older half-sister Mattie.
2. Another peculiarity noted on Roy Pierce's SSN Application is that on the SS Application, Uncle JD states that he was born in Monroe, Walton, GA. However, his WWI Draft card says he was born in Watkinsville, as did his brothers. Oconee and Walton county are neighbors. Uncle JD applied for his SS card in 1940, 23 years after his WWI draft card.
3. Lastly, I noted that the SSN application says corrected application. Would appreciate comments and insight into what that could mean.

For now, until I can find something to document the other surnames, I will concentrate on White since that is the only one that I can actually document. By the way, I'm still waiting to receive a copy of the marriage certificate for Cornelius and Fannie. I'm really not expecting it to reveal a lot (my grandparent's just had their names and the date of marriage).

So I make this decision with the surname but it feels like it doesn't help because I don't know anything about Fannie's family. There is a Fannie White, age 2, listed on the 1870 census in Walton County. This could be her but without having a clue as to her other family members, I'm just guessing. And for some reason it just doesn't feel like her (but that could just be me). There has never been a mention of any relatives on Fannie's side of the family. I am still waiting on the death certificate of my grandmother's cousin, Claude Durden to see if that can shed any light on the mysterious one.

So Luckie, Felicia, Allum, Sandra and all my fellow genealogist, where should I go from here? Should I wait until I hopefully receive all the other items requested (Aunt Effie's death certificate, cousin Claude's death certificate, the ggrandparent's marriage certificate, etc.) Do I continue to look in Walton county?

HELP!

Wordless Wednesday

Cousin Eula Mae Jackson Fifer

Daughter of Evelina Pierce Jackson and Jim Jackson

(1918 - 2003)

Madness Monday - GGrandmother: Ms. Fannie What's Her Name

I haven't forgotten her, not by a long stretch, but decided to take a mini break for awhile and do a bit of reading but I feel the ancestors stirring, again. It's like they really do know time is running out for them, so they keep pushing ever so gently.

Revisiting the 1910 census:

1910 Federal Census - living in Militia Dist. 419, Walton County, Georgia as the wife of Cornelius "PIERCE."M2 Fannie "PIERCE," Mulatto, age 43, married 21 years, M1, mother of 13 children, 8 living, born in Georgia, Father born in Georgia, Mother born in Georgia.

The following children are listed with Fannie and Cornelius

Mary, daughter, age 19, born Georgia

Clara, daughter, age 18, born Georgia

Effie, daughter, age 16, born Georgia

Felton, son, age 13, born Georgia

Carl, son, age 10, born Georgia

Ossie, daughter, age 9, born Gerogia

One thing that I included this time that I didn't previously is that the 1910 census indicates that this is Cornelius' second marriage but Fannie's first. Do I take this "fact" at face value or do I ignore it in light of Fannie's various other surnames? For now, as you can determine from my previous posts, I've decided to ignore it but keep it tucked back.

As a reminder of the all the surnames:

1. White - the surname name handed down by Aunt Evelina Pierce and Aunt Ossie Pierce. Based on the Walton County Marriage Index, it's the name great grandmom used when she married Cornelius. This is the name that appears on Aunt Evelina's death certificate. The informant for Aunt Evelina's death certificate was her husband, Jim Jackson.
2. Henry - the surname handed down by my grandmother, Mary, and this is the name that appears on her death certificate. The informant for my grandmother's death certificate was my grandfather, Lucillous Hosch.
3. Sanford - the Martin cousins knew Fannie as grandmother Sanford. Unfortunately, Aunt Mattie died right on the cusp of Georgia keeping death certificates. Therefore, I've not been able to locate documentation of her death and therefore, any lineage information that may be indicated there.
4. Hilyard / Henyard - the two surnames for Aunt Mattie obtained from the Martin cousins. During our conversation last weekend, cousin Eunice stated that her mother always said Mattie was a Hilyard. Some of the other Martin cousin's (Ovella and Harrison) stated Henyard. Assuming that Aunt Mattie is great grandmother Fannie's child, these are other possible surnames.

What I've been up to since my last post on Fannie.

• Ordered a copy of the death certificate for Claude Durden, my grandmother's cousin, in hope's of determining how they were related. The Durden family, Claude's grandparents and their family, appeared in Walton county on the census about the same time that my great grandparents did. The Durden side of Claude's family is originally from Morgan county.
• Ordered a copy of Roy "JD" Pierce's SSN Application
• Ordered a copy of Aunt Effie's death certificate (what surname did she indicate?)
• Hoping to find out if there are any deeds / mortgage records / probabte records for Cornelius that might also shed light on Fannie. GGranddad Cornelius was in the process of buying his own farm (1910 census indicates he owned his farm and had a mortgage) when he died in May of 1910.
• Ordered a copy of Cornelius and Fannie's marriage certificate (had hope to pick this up in person during my research trip but since I have no idea when I will make it to Georgia, I went ahead and ordered a copy)
• Trying to find out if there is a birth certificate for any of the great uncles. Per their WWI Draft Registration cards, all three indicated they were born in Watkinsville. Last night I discovered that Oconee County has birth records dating back to 1875, so I'm hoping that a birth certificate is available for one or all 3. I decided to start with the middle brother, Willie Felton, and go from there.

Hopefully, responses to my various requests will start coming in this week. Please let there be some snippet of information that finally allows me to break down this seemingly monstrous brick wall. After discovering cousins Eunice and Irene last week, I have a feeling that after all these years, I'm getting close to solving my mysterious / fascinating yet maddening great-grandmother. Then it will be on to the next brick wall.
Until Next Time!

Newly Discovered Cousins

Feels like I've been so busy this past week, that I've not had a chance to really sit down and talk about my telephone conversation last week with my newly discovered cousins.

It's been exactly a week since the conversation with cousin Irene and her mother, cousin Eunice. I was excited but concerned at the same time. If you recall, on my post about Aunt Mattie's descendants, I had commented about how my mother felt she thought her cousins were passing and that it may have been a reason there was very little contact. I was really concerned that my new found cousins might take offense with the statement. Surprisingly, they didn't and even said that I was kind of right in making my statement.

Anyway, cousins Irene and Eunice, and mom and I had a wonderful conversation. I learned a lot about this branch of the tree, acquired another surname to search for Aunt Mattie in hopes that it will lead me back to great grandmother Fannie's line of the family and confirmed, again, that everyone seems to know Fannie by a different surname. The Ohio cousins have always known her as Grandmother Sanford.

Cousins Irene and Eunice were amazed at how much I had already figured out especially how I figured out, without a death certificate, the exact year / time frame that Aunt Mattie died.

Found out that cousin Evelyn (mom's first cousin, Eunice's aunt and Irene's great aunt) is still alive and well at the ripe young age of 99. Wish that I could actually meet her in person. I sent Irene an old picture of my grandmother and Evelyn, which she plans to take with her the next time that she sees Evelyn.

This week I must sit down and go back through all my notes from our conversation and organize them. Irene and I plan to keep in touch. We kept e-mailing each other all week.

I just had this feeling all week that the ancestors were smiling down on us.

Til next Time!

Ancestors I have met Challenge

This is the second of Randy Seaver's, Genea-Musings, Saturday Challenges that I have participated in.

Tonight's challenge was as follows:

1) Write down which of your ancestors that you have met in person (yes, even if you were too young to remember them).

2) Tell us their names, where they lived, and their relationship to you in a blog post, or in comments to this post, or in comments on Facebook.

Ovella Hosch Jones (1928 - Present), my mother has resided in our hometown her entire life and is the embodiment of an active senior. She's on the board of elections and until recently, my mother was actually running a few errands for one of her elementary teachers.

Lucillous Hosch (1888 - 1978), my maternal grandfather. Granddad was born in Jackson County, GA. Both of his parents died when he was a little boy and his maternal grandparents finished rearing he and his brothers in Walton County, GA. Looking for a better way of life, he first traveled to VA but eventually settled in Cleveland County, NC. My granddad died in Cleveland County during the fall of my senior year in HS.

Mary Magdalene Pierce Hosch (1890 - 1966), my maternal grandmother. As best as I can piece together through documentation, my grandmother more than likely was born in Watkinsville, GA. Her family latter settled in Walton County, GA. She and my grandfather, Lucillous, married on Oct. 9, 1910. While my grandfather searched for a new home for his family, my grandmother remained in GA. After granddad settled on NC, my grandmother and their children joined him. Per mom, my grandmother when referring to her children always separated them into her Georgia children and her North Carolina children. Grandmom died during my fifth year of life in Cleveland County, NC.

So, a total of three on my maternal side. Even less on my paternal side. Information on my paternal ancestors will be posted on Conversations with my Ancestors.

Greene County, GA 1850 - 1885

This past Monday, while waiting in the emergency room with my dad, I was able to finish reading How Curious a Land: Conflict and Change in Greene County, GA 1850 - 1885 by Jonathan M. Bryant. I purchased this book hoping there would be a mention of my ancestors, my 2ggrandparents Jasper and Jane Pierce, or at least a mention of their last slave owner. Sadly, there was no mention of either my ancestors or their owner.

Even though there was no mention of my ancestors, I am glad that I read the book as it gave me a snapshot of what was going on in the county in which they lived prior to and immediately following the civil war. This is not a full blown review of the book but just some of things I noted or that came to mind as I read the book.

One of the interesting things, based on this book, is that a great many of the slaves were able to "freely" move about and visit other farms as the patrol laws were never really enforced in Greene County. And although not legally recognized, they were allowed to marry and they were allowed to build their own church because it was thought they would do better spiritually if they had their own place of worship.

Maybe it was this limited Freedom during slavery that gave the former slaves of Greene County the strength and solidarity against great odds to continue to fight for their rights long after the other former slaves of GA had been put back in their place. They build their own community, Canaan, and they greatly impacted the politics of Greene County for many years. It was a several years before Democrats came back in power in Greene County. (For those that may not know, Lincoln's party was not the Democratic party. The former slaves and their descendants were overwhelmingly Republican and it stayed this way until the 1930s.)

Unfortunately for many of the former slaves of Greene County and yes even for some of the former slave owners, Greene County put all it's eggs into one basket, Cotton, and a market economy over which they had no control. Even though I've yet to visit Greene County, I understand the effects of this decision still hang over Greene County even today.

The one thing that I confirmed by reading this book but had already suspected is that even within Greene County there was further fragmentation depending on where one resided. My ancestors and their suspected but yet to be confirmed owner, Jesse Pierce, lived in White Plains, GA. The White Plains and Siloam areas were known as the Grey Lands due to the light sandy soil. Those that settled this area tended to be small time farmers, usually owning less than 200 acres, with only few slaves (15 or less) and it's reported that the owner's often worked in the fields alongside their slaves. I wonder if having to work alongside the slaves they owned affected the owner's view of slavery. This fact also make me realize that it may be just a bit more difficult than even I imagined to continue past my 2ggrandparents but I refuse to give up.

And lastly, I wonder what my ancestors went through in the years immediately following the civil war. Did they ever think about moving to Canaan? Did they ever try to vote? Or did they just simply want their own little piece of land to farm and raise their family? Eventually, my ancestors left Greene County. My ggrandfather and his brother Lon would eventually end up in Walton County and my great aunt Nuna would eventually end up in Atlanta. I suspect that one by one or together that the rest of my ggrandfather's brothers and sisters left Greene County, too as I've not been able to locate them past the 1880 census. I think my 2ggrandparents more than likely spent their entire life in White Plains. GGgranddad appears on the 1880 census, then never again. I've found what appears to be my gggrandmother on the 1900 census still in White Plains.



Til Next Time!

Wordless Wednesday

Mom, Aunt Frances, Aunt Lue